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Atheism IS a Religion
in Religion
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Is English really your native language?
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Halloween costumes don't exist silly, nor does Halloween. lol
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Same thing, and same answer.
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I deny that Harry Potter exists. I agree Harry Potter is a fictional character in a book, but I deny that fictional characters exist. You really should talk to a professional medical personal about what you believe exists I'm sure they would find it fascinating...
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Did you hear how excited they were, saying: "Fealt the bumps, it was AWESOME!"
Sssheesshh, what morons we've become. If it wasn't for you buddy, I'd be in line for that ride, and get my Certificate on "Toured-Mars And Survived!"
Hey @Erfisflat I just thought of something funny? Now imagine taking a bunch of adults on that Mars-ride in the Mohave desert where NASA has the Mars Rover, .. and put everyone in spacesuits, with red tinted visors, lead them outside and they see that landscape with the Rover there, .. Har, har, har...
How many do you think would believe that they're really on Mars?
Wait, .. wait, .. to really freak them out, have Matt Damon there holding a few cabbages to meet them, and act all happy that they came to rescue him! lol
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A dogtheist believes he has a dog. A dogatheist believes he has no dog. A dogfidel believes he doesn't have a dog. A dognostic believes he's as likely to have a dog as to not have a dog. Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? Or is it just hard for you to admit to yourself?
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A dogatheist doesn't believe he has a dog
A dogagnostic doesn't believe it's possible to know if he has anything
If you don't believe he has a dog, then you are a dogatheist. You don't get to remove yourself when there are only two options. This is why atheist is a null value, and why atheist isn't "I believe he doesn't have a dog". Apply this back to religion, what is a person who doesn't feel like they have enough information to believe there is a god(s)? Spoiler alert... it's an atheist.
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So you don't see the mind/spirit of man as something other than the brains activity?
How about all the effort in trying to "capture the mind/soul of man and storing it on disk. which they hope to one day load into a robot? Have you seen the movie CHAPPiE yet?
How much of the Blue Brain Project have you looked into? You're smart man, look into it!
http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/
But look at this video they put out,
what does this Fantasia type music cartoon has to do with the brain? See, all in the footsteps of NASA Entertainment to soothe the mind of us cows.
Now this is interesting:
Erfisflat said - one must believe either what the scientists say, or what the theist says. Either way, you believe what somebody says, ergo, you have a belief system.
Like I said about todays scientists, .. and as for the "theist", only their individual Religious beliefs matter, like the atheists, .. which is like the definition says: "blind faith"
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@JoePineapples
Atheist: "I don't believe dogs exist, so I don't care if you have a dog or not. And I have no belief either, .. faith is for theists, and I'm an atheist."
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You can make a religion out of anything, any book, any idea, even music, including the Bible. In my younger days I knew a lot of science fiction fans who were very religious about science fiction, attended all the Science fairs which were more about science fiction than science.
There are practically tens of thousands of Jesus's in the world, some look just like the Christian Religions Jesus that Christians claim is Biblical, so what? Now that doesn't make Jesus the Christian Religions Jesus does it? Just as an idol of Bible God doesn't mean that God is now an idol.
Grow up already, I'm getting tired of breastfeeding you.
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A dogtheist believes he has a dog.
A dogatheist believes he has no dog.
A dogfidel believes he doesn't have a dog.
A dognostic believes he's as likely to have a dog as to not have a dog.
Obviously, it's possible to know whether or not he has a dog, so dognostic doesn't translate properly into this conversation. If you don't believe he has a dog, then you are a dogfidel. To translate this back to religion, a person who doesn't feel like they have enough information to believe there is a god(s) is either agnostic (if they don't believe such information can exist) or they are an infidel. If, and only if, they believe God does not exist are they an atheist.
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Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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I can believe you have a dog.
I can believe you have no dog.
I can believe you don't have a dog.
I can believe you are as likely to have a dog as to not have a dog.
This has been my position all along.
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If, for whatever reason, there are any other options when it comes to belief about the dog, the same applies to belief about gods. Therefore not believing in gods is not the same as believing that gods don't exist.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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After years and years of talking to religious people all I can say is, being an atheist is something you can be proud of.
Religious people have a lot of little tricks they use to rope other people into their religious context.
Have you ever heard a theist say something like, atheists hate God or atheists hate Jesus?
I do not hate God, that would be like hating the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus, it's ridiculous.
What I hate are the people that use God to justify their stupidity and bigotry, aside from that I have no interest in God or feelings about it.
I am interested in religious people though, they can be very amusing.
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Really what's the difference between "have no dog" and "don't have a dog" exactly?
Also you position earlier was "I can't know" if you have a dog or not which you didn't list.
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Back to the actual debate, there are 4 relevant beliefs;
Those who believe God exists - theists
Those who believe no God exists - atheists
Those who do not believe in religion - infidels
Those who believe it is unknown and unknowable whether God exists or not.
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If your mistaken belief of what atheism mean is correct, why is it that your definition matches the definition of infidel and is completely different from the definition of atheist?
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Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Wayne Dyer
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infidel
If your mistaken belief of what atheism mean is correct, why is it that your definition matches the definition of infidel and is completely different from the definition of atheist?
My mistaken definition of atheism? My definition is what's in every site that's been referenced. And the reason atheist and infidels are different, is because they are different words that aren't synonyms. (My OCD would like to correct that they aren't "completely" different as their are some similarities in the definition of infidel and atheist)
As for the meme, telling someone that you want them tortured for the rest of eternity is a mean thing to say. It doesn't matter if the person you tell believes it will happen or not, you're still a shitty person.
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Ah, .. this is going nowhere. The question is about the dog, not whether you have one or not, .. but does it exist or not?
So the question from you is: Does he, or does he not believe that dogs exist?
Atheism claims that gods don't exist.
And the god/gods in theism, are made up gods by Religions, just like the gods in Greek, Roman, German, Hindu etc. mythology.
Look, if dogs went extinct almost 2,00 years ago, and all the people ever knew since then were stuffed Build-a-Bear dogs, and the "believers" in these Build-a-Bear dogs were called "theists", then that's what they would believe dogs were!
And the atheists would deny that these Build-a-Bear dogs exist! What is so hard to understand about this?
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YES, absolutely your mistaken definition of the term atheism. Your definition of the term doesn't show up IN A SINGLE ONE of the definitions posted in this debate. Read and try to comprehend this time;
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/atheist
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/atheist
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
I didn't ask if infidels and atheists were the same, and never implied that they were. I asked why what you call "atheists" matches the definition of infidels, while the actual definitions of atheist differ so much from what you claim the word "atheist" means?
As for the meme; it's an atheism thing, you wouldn't understand.
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I didn't ask if infidels and atheists were the same, and never implied that they were. I asked why what you call "atheists" matches the definition of infidels, while the actual definitions of atheist differ so much from what you claim the word "atheist" means?
As for the meme; it's an atheism thing, you wouldn't understand.
I will concede that you were able to find definition that support your claim. In a related note my respect for the online definitions from Cambridge and Collins just dropped a peg. At least Collins has it correctly in other definitions. However it does show the effect of the bible belt in America.
The british versions of the definitions in your links:
Dictionary - a person who does not believe in God or gods
Collins - a person who does not believe in God or gods
Under the philosophy section of free dictionary - a person who does not believe in God or gods
Cambridge seems pretty sparse on the subject. Losing more respect for that site.
Webster - a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods
Oxford - A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
Urban - A person who lacks belief in a god or gods.
Your dictionary - The definition of an atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of any kind of God or higher power.
Macmillian - someone who does not believe that God exists
I find it interesting that the American definition of atheist seems to be changing to a claim that god(s) don't exist. English is a living language though so I guess it's expected. It does create the question what is the definition of a person who doesn't believe god exist, and doesn't believe god doesn't exist. A new word would need to be created to cover people who are ambivalent on the topic. Of course the majority has been vilifying atheists for time untold, and they are the majority, so it shouldn't be unexpected that they are working to corrupt it's meaning.
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The above is absolutely correct, a belief is a binary thing, it's either present or it's not. Therefore, any question beginning with "Do you believe..." can only have one of two answers, yes or no. If the answer is no, that does not limit or exclude you from having alternate beliefs about the question subject.
The following are all separate belief questions, each require a yes or no;
-Do you believe I have a dog?
-Do you believe I don't have a dog?
-Do you believe I might have a dog?
-Do you believe I have more than one dog?
-Do you believe I am a dog?
-Do you believe that cats are dogs?
Etc.
A belief is like a hat, you either have it or you don't. A belief that god or gods exist might be a green hat (each god has a different shade of green) and the belief that there are no gods might be a blue hat. A belief that dogs can see in the dark might be a red hat. Not having a green hat does not mean you have to have a blue hat (or a red hat for that matter).
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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PS Thank you for joining in Joe it's a breath of fresh air...
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http://www.etymonline.com/word/atheism
It seems more an attempt to by atheists to make their belief more inclusive to grow their membership. There aren't very many atheists, but there are a lot of people who simply don't believe in God. More members means more representation, more people willing to pay dues to organizations, etc. so you're right, so it shouldn't be unexpected that they are working to corrupt it's meaning.
As for how to refer to people who just don't believe in God; infidel works, as does godless and irreligious.
Can we at least agree that belief that God does not exist is a belief in the ultimate nature of the universe, and thus a religion?
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Please do.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Wiki - Atheism (derived from the Ancient Greek ἄθεος atheos meaning "without gods; godless; secular; denying or disdaining the gods, especially officially sanctioned gods"[1]) is the absence or rejection of the belief that deities exist.
Define Atheism - The words "atheism" and "atheist" originated from the Ancient Greek word "ἄθεος"4 ("átheos") meaning "without deities" without any direct or implied anti-theistic (or anti-religious) connotation, for it was (and still is) impartial in its initially intended use -- philosophical atheist thought is also believed by some scholars to have begun in Asia and Europe as early as 600 BCE.
As for there being a belief system that states god doesn't exist yes I can agree that there is.
Define antitheist:
Dictionary - one opposed to belief in the existence of a god
Free Dictionary - a person opposed to belief in god or gods
Your Dictionary - An active opponent of the belief in the existence of a god or gods.
I will also agree that if you have a belief, claim, or an opponent then yes that could be a religion. So while atheist couldn't be a religion, antitheism could, because antitheism claims, or believes that theism is "wrong" is is actively opposing it.
Just to beat this horse in the ground.
symmetrical - having corresponding points whose connecting lines are bisected by a given point or perpendicularly bisected by a given line or plane
asymmetrical - having two sides or halves that are not the same :not symmetrical
** There is no claim that the object is a star or a polygon or whatever just that it does not fit into the symmetric "group"
typical - combining or exhibiting the essential characteristics of a group
atypical - not typical
** There is no claim that the person is a nerd, or bookworm or whatever just that they don't fit into the typical "group"
We use this "not part of this group" with other prefaces as well:
known - generally recognized
unknown - not known or not well-known
** There is no claim that there is a unicorn or dragon or whatever just that it doesn't fit in the known "group"
The same holds true for theist and atheist. An Atheist is not part of the theist group. That doesn't mean they know god doesn't exist, or that they actively work against people who believe god exists or whatever they just don't fit into the theist "group".
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Going back to the core theme of the thread for a moment, Vaulk's premise is relying on a lot of assumptions to be true. He's listed a bunch of stuff that may apply to some atheists (as individual qualities/qualifiers) but certainly not all atheists.
To go a further step and assume that all the factors on that list will apply to a majority of atheists is just ridiculous.
The list gets off to a very bad start with the "No I'm an atheist" being analogous to being religious.
If you ask a white man if he's black and he says "No I'm white" then that must be analogous to being black, so he must be black.
That pretty much sets the standard for the rest of the list.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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Oh I totally agree with the "may apply to some atheists but certainly not all atheists", and that's been the roadblock I keep running into. They see a trait as an "atheist" trait, then assume all atheists have that trait, and as you said it's ridiculous.
Yes the assumption when it comes to god (and only with god because they don't do this with other things) is that if answer that you aren't white then you must be black. Ignoring that you could be yellow, red, albino, or whatever. I completely agree.
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Theist - a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods.
Atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
Infidel - a person who has no religious faith; unbeliever.
Once again; do you believe that "not believing in God" means something other than "believing God does not exist"? Answer the question this time.
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The discussion is about atheists, people who believe there is no God, not about antitheists people who are opposed to the belief in god or gods. A person can believe there is no God while not being opposed to the belief.
The English language is complex, rules are guidelines that don't always hold true in every case;
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bout?s=t
In your world, about must mean accepting without trial, timeless, and/or inaction. In the real world, however, saying Beethoven's 5th piano concerto is an about piece of music doesn't make any sense;
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/about
...or how about;
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/blaze?s=t
Apparently in your world, its a fire fighter's job to go around and put houses and buildings ablaze. In the real world;
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ablaze
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/corn?s=t
Covenyworld: I started the Atkins diet, now all of my meals need to be acorn. In the real world;
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/acorn
I've never said atheists were theists; they're their own group of people who deny the existence of God(s), as per the many definitions of an atheist. As such, they have a a belief in the ultimate nature of the universe, and are thus a religion.
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The words you used aren't antonyms like typical/atypical, symetrical/asymetrical, and of course theist/atheist. Yes the English language is complex, steals from other language to create a frankenstein language that sucks really bad. Just like you suck at English.
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Your exact words, which I responded to, were:
"Allow me to clarify as you're taking my statement out of the context in which it was intended; it is the same thing to not believe something exists as it is to believe something does not exist."
So (according to you) being without belief A (that something exists) means that you must have belief B (that it does not exist)
I've been very clear on this from the start, not believing in any gods (or anything else for that matter) is not the same as the belief that they don't exist. Simply put, absence of belief is not belief of absence.
Belief that God exists is one belief
Belief that God doesn't exist is separate belief
Being without the first one doesn't automatically mean you have to have the second one.
Now, back to my question, if you think that being without the belief that a god exists means that you have to have the belief that it doesn't exist, can you please explain the mechanism which forces this.
Please don't expect me to respond with insults and memes, I don't have time for it.
Please don't expect me to respond to Gish-galloping, I don't have time for it.
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